Ah, I guess I spoke too soon:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/01/30/red-lights-no-explanation-xbox-360-annoyance-012/#c978679

Congrats on the nice DIY job! =)

ugh. you exerted effort to play PDZ? that's like scouring landfills for a jaguar just so you can play kasumi ninja.

I wonder how many 360 units have been replaced that could have been fixed in a similar manner.

Yeah, I have to do the same kind of repair on my PC, where I have more tools. That's why I'm a console gamer, so I don't have to worry about that sort of crap.

Oh, wait...

Isn't the chief advantage of having a console over a PC the concept that you don't have jump through hoops to make it work? Seems like with the X-box 360, we've got consoles that need to be rebooted, consoles that need the system software re-initialized, and games that need patching.

How is this any different than just buying a PC?

Did you ever think its an annoyance that a console can be so complicated that its software can screw itself up? Its like like you installed some 3rd party software. Microsoft's own stuff screwed itself up. That's a bitch in my book.

It begs the question why didnt the person on the phone know to do that? It would have saved them a fair bit of money getting it shipped both ways and repaired.

Ah well, as long as its working.

I'm glad this has happened. I can't count the number of consoles myself and my friends have had die due to somethign corrupting the built-in "OS" (PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, Dreamcast, everything). The ability to effectively reload the software is huge.

+1 Microsoft.

Yeah, I really hate having a console that can get upgrades/fixes to its' OS and even game fixes or additions. I'd be much happier with a console that was just left unfixed if there were any sort of problems. If only they could do something about that annoying internet connectivity now, and maybe color television too...

Seriously, what satisfies people nowadays? People bitch when anything is delayed, they bitch when it's released too early, and they bitch when they do or don't have one at all, because "whatever" is a superior product.

No wonder manufacturers aren't putting as much due diligence into product development cycles anymore, they've been fed mixed messages from consumers for so long that they know there is no "perfect" solution. People like to whine, and on the internet, whining has been elevated into enlightenment.

The new consoles are scaled-down computers, the last generation of hardware was way more powerful than the machine I ran Quake II on in fully accelerated, all-bells-and-whistles glory, and that machine had problems, needed fixes, and even had an abyssymal OS. I'm thankful that MS, Sony, and even Nintendo have elevated the gaming experience so much that I don't constantly need to upgrade myself into a $2500+ PC just to be able to play some new games with sexy tech. I'm also thankful that console technology has enabled us to have machines that can have mistakes fixed, if needed, not to mention upgrades that add even more usefulness to the current configuration.

I agree that it's a sad state of affairs that patches have a need fro existence, but I've also played some previous generation games that would have benefitted greatly from a patch or twelve.

My GameCube has a really cool fix-it-yourself option called 'it doesn't break even if you unplug it or kick it around.'

I don't mean to start a flame war, but do you think it is safe to buy a 360 now (if it is available)?

Jeremy, Bill . . you are obviously missing the point. It's not about being able to fix these things, and update them through patches, its that consumers shouldn't have to! Would you like it if your microwave needed a BIOS update so it could reheat rice properly, becuase before it was causing it to turn black? No. You would expect your microwave to work in the first place.

Before there was the ability to update games(and now, perhaps consoles), these things wern't pushed to market. They were tested over and over, to make sure they worked. Because recalls sucked, and were expensive. Pushing that burden to consumers is just wrong. If you endorse this, companies will get lazier and lazier. I realy hope you like being a Beta tester, because that is what you endorse by "congratulating" MS on this sort of crappy behavoir, with a +1.

say, -10 000 000 000 to MS and anyone lese who tries to get away with this BS.

I think it's a bit easier to time when a light goes on to emit a certain type of wavelength as opposed to programming a computer. Terrible analogy.

I'm confused...

So would this have been 2 delights if it wouldn't have broken at all?

I really don't get how having to reinstall windows is a delight. I hate doing it on my computer, and until I read this I didn't even think about it on consoles.

Fuzz, you obviously only read the first sentance of my post. That's ok, although I did read your entire reply. I can't even count how many flawed products I've owned, from automobiles to electronics to everything in between. Just because something doesn't get recalled, doesn't mean there wasn't a crucial flaw incorporated into the design that was ignored or overlooked in the zeal to get to market. If a product ships with a software glitch that isn't caught (and I'm all for longer development cycles to try and avoid this- I practically celebrate when games are delayed, since I know it's almost always for the better) I think it's not only a good option for the manufacturer to fix the issue via a patch, it's practically an obligation. There have been major, showstopper bugs in released product for every single console ever released, and no development cycle will ever unearth everything. Not to excuse developers for OBVIOUS issues that end up making it into final code, but there comes a time when polishing and testing have done all they can do and the rest is up to fate. If we can improve on fate, then why not?

wah wah wah friggin wahh...shit i wished my ps1 had a fail safe like that when it over heated...or i wish my ps2 had an update for the disc read error..or even my xbox when it had a problem...fact..SHIT HAPPENS...im glad MS and other companies are taking this into account and making the neccessary steps to minimize them as much as possible...people will bitch and moan about anything..GOD they released it TOO early!...MAN why is it takign them so long to realease it!!!...i wish i knew how to fix the red flashing lights!!!...why are there so many updates to fix the flashing lights!!!!...dam people..make up your minds..your acting like spoiled 10 yr olds...

Microsoft rushed the Xbox 360, and the result is a poorly tested product.

@ bd:
Yes, it's safe to buy an X-Box 360.
It always has been. As long as you read the manual, make sure the power supply isn't on the carpet and the console itself is in the open(instead of closed areas like an entertainment shelf), it'll be fine.

I had my 360(Premium) since December and it's working fine without any type of problems. I have it sitting on a coffee table by itself with a lot of open space to breath fresh cold air. The power supply is on a small table, right beside the tv. Nothing is blocking the air flow. The console does get hot at the back.

I spend between 2 to 3 hours of NFS Most Wanted goodness and the system is hot. You can hear the system kicking on the cooling fans, even when you shut down the console.

yeah seriously... the microwave analogy is flawed, that is a simple device, a state or the art game console... isn't. Which do you think breaks down more a Nascar or your Honda Civic? Which is better? Let's just say your Civic isn't going to hit 200+ MPH, but it more reliable for tooling around town. PS3 will have the same problems and more they are using tech that hasn't been used anywhere before.

i'm just glad my snes still works.

"@ bd:
Yes, it's safe to buy an X-Box 360.
It always has been. As long as you read the manual, make sure the power supply isn't on the carpet and the console itself is in the open(instead of closed areas like an entertainment shelf), it'll be fine."

In conclusion, bd...

No

People are arguing over whether a complicated computer appliances (Xbox 360) should be as reliable as other electronic items (microwaves). The answer is that, yes, they should be. People buy them so they don't have to mess with stuff like this, but Microsoft doesn't understand that.

I think the idea that if there's software involved in something like this, there must be glitches is ridiculous. Microsoft has pushed this notion with all its buggy software. It's to the point where people EXPECT there to be issues with their computers, and now Microsoft is creating room for its incompetence in home video game consoles. If your NASCAR car or your Honda Civic crashed as much as the Xbox 360, either one would be recalled. Microsoft is just getting away with this sort of product because people expect their stuff to crash. Fanboys are even pushing it onto the consumer saying it's his fault because he shouldn't have breathed on it wrong. That's nuts. This system doesn't work like they've promised.

GlitchCog, I'm a programmer and you obviously have a naive understanding of how robust such complex software should be, I would really like to know what you are comparing against.

Glitches and bugs are and always will be part of complex computer software, Every coder knows this. Microsoft employ some of the best coders in the world, and it's a fact.

Your comparison to cars is ridiculous too, Cars do have a lot of problems, there is whole industry around repairing them.

It wasn't originally my comparison to cars. Somebody else said it first in defense of the Xbox 360.

"Microsoft employ some of the best coders in the world, and it's a fact."
This is, in fact, the very definition of an opinion. It's an opinion that tons of people would disagree with. Besides, even if they employ some of the best, they're obviously not using them on the Preventing-Xbox-360-crash programs.

Anyone who’s used Windows, whether they like Microsoft or not, realizes that it crashes all the time, even if you’re only running Microsoft software. And there are many, many people who think Microsoft programmers suck, which isn’t a very difficult idea to wrap your mind around if you’ve ever used their products. Complicated software is difficult to write without bugs, but there are better companies then Microsoft at doing it. Read some Slashdot. Anyway, that's why their console crashes, just like their operating systems.

"If your NASCAR car or your Honda Civic crashed as much as the Xbox 360, either one would be recalled."

Not if the car were made by Ford.

I have more of a question than a comment. My 360 wireless controll quit working. Do you know how to get the controller a part. I took out all the screws but something seems to still be holding it together in the middle. I cant figure out how to take it apart without ripping it apart. any sugestions?